Tuesday May 13 2008
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devin hester

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bandwagon
#osK.dod Donate today to the osK lan fund!
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shouldn't "bandwagon" be reserved for like... when people hop on mediocre players who get hot...

ala Eli, Derek Anderson.

is there a Joe Montana bandwagon too? maybe a Barry Sanders wagon. I'd love to hop on those.

This comment was edited at 05/06/2008 10:03 AM
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Dylan Johnston - http://phishcave.com
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hmm... eerily similar.
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Hester gets far to much credit for what he does, he's fast and that's really just about it. How people don't realize the bears have had an incredible special teams for quite some time now I just don't understand. Hester literally runs straight lines in over half the returns in that video because the blocking is so good. Not sure if you have every watched a bears game, but when Hester tries to make people miss or runs to the side instead of accelerating straight down the field he rarely makes a decent play and often loses yards.
LoLuPist?
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Hester isn't incredibly fast. He's fast, but he's not near the fastest returner in the game.

What Hester has is great stride. I don't think there's a player in the league that can run at top speed for as long as Hester can. That's what makes him so outstanding.

To say Hester is only good because of the Bears special teams is ridiculous. Obviously you need a good core guys to have a dynamite return game, but the majority of that is on the returner's shoulders.

He'll sometimes have ineffective plays because that's the boom-bust mentality you get when you know you can break one at any time. Barry Sanders always tried to create. Hester always tries to create.

To say the guy "rarely makes a decent play and often loses yards" is not putting things into perspective... at all. And it's really silly.

You'll look back at that statement in history and laugh at yourself. For real. To think Hester couldn't go to another team with a decent special teams and still be the best returner in the game is just ignorance imo... Special teams blockers are implored to play better when they actually have someone that can do something behind them.

Put Big Ben back returning kicks for the bears and you can bet your butt they don't work as hard on their blocks.

To punish Hester because he has a good special teams working with him is just dumb, honestly.

Do you complain that Tom Brady's O-line is too good? Or that Peyton Manning has great receivers?

Does anyone say AP is only good because he runs behind the Vikings O-line? (not jokingly)

You're looking at history in the making and you're brushing it off like it's a result of circumstance...

the guy returned the kickoff in the superbowl to cap it off... sure as heck didn't run in a straight line there (and for the record, most of the clips he doesn't run in a straight line... however that IS the quickest way to the endzone, and your #1 priority).

If there is ANY player in the league that is NOT overrated, it's Devin Hester. And I am NOT a fan of the Bears by any means.

This comment was edited at 05/06/2008 3:37 PM
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#3 devin hester was a failure at everything he did in college except for returning kicks.
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... #8 which would have what to do with a video of a kick returner in the NFL?

news flash, Peyton manning wasn't a good running back in college. Terrell Owens never excelled on the O-line.

anymore totally irrelevant information you want to point out just let me know.

This comment was edited at 05/06/2008 4:37 PM
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Now I didn't really watch any bears games so correct me if i'm wrong, but I'm looking at the stats for kickoff returns from this season and I don't really get it. He is tied for third in TD kickoff returns with 2, and is 23nd for average yards per return for players with over 30 kickoff returns (35th if you go from 20 returns minimum), yet he gets tons of publicity. Am I missing something?
mmK
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4 PR touchdowns to go on top of those 2 KR touchdowns... and then 2 receiving touchdowns if that matters at all.

and he's done that two years in a row.

and he almost did it again in the pre-season (lol) until his teammate tripped him up in the open. and he did it in the superbowl. and he pretty much single-handedly won the Denver game... etc. His impact goes beyond stats. I would even argue his average-per-return isn't absolutely staggering because teams often try to pin him or kick away from him... They try to put the ball in a position that may be great field position for the receiving team, but at least the returner (Hester) wont have an opportunity to return it farther. But yeah, Hester's bred and butter isn't from kickoffs... it's from punts.

This comment was edited at 05/06/2008 4:43 PM
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#9 just pointing out that he'll never be more than a kick returner and a home run deep threat (maybe 2 td's a year).

Get off his nuts, his play wont win championships.
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his play got the bears to the superbowl (along with their defense) but hester consistently had the bear's offense at mid-field if not farther a majority of the time. remember the superbowl where he opened the game with a KR for a TD?
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The advantage he gives his offense every time he returns a kick or a punt is incredible (if not 6 points). To know this and look the other way is ignorance.

You're complaining that in college all he did was return kicks? Who the hell cares. He is now in the NFL, the cream of the crop of football, and he is still doing the same thing. Now it's his fault because this is all he does in the NFL? Give the guy a break. Football is a team game, and he is right now one of the Bears' greatest assets.
[b]#Nameless[/b] chr1stoph3r<3c
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#12 nobody's saying hester's play will win championships. all we're saying is that he's the best returner in the NFL. last time i checked kick/punt returns didn't win championships. they can certainly impact the game, though...ala arizona 2 years ago and denver last year...and DARREN SPROLES vs the colts last year...

and if derek anderson has a bandwagon i'm the driver of that sh*t because i've been on his nuts since the day charlie frye was cut.

oh and i'm a huge bears fan. hester's not overrated, and grossman's underrated. hester's the best kick returner to ever play and i'm saying that after his 2nd season in the nfl. after the 1st season, everyone said they wouldn't kick to him anymore because of what he's capable of. guess what...they were very aware what he was capable of the 2nd time around and he still delivered. #12 a return for a TD has a tremendous impact on a game...it just shifts the momentum so much that it's easy to use that as a play to jump start a comeback or a drive to pull away from your opponent.

it's pretty obvious you don't know football so i'm just gonna stop now. you shouldn't make remarks about football if the only game you watch out of the season is the superbowl.

and the bears just need an offense now (and less injuries plz) to take advantage of the incredible field position they get from having hester deep.

edit: and he's great for the league. he's so much fun to watch because you know at any time he can take one to the house...it's similar to watching michael vick or barry sanders.

This comment was edited at 05/06/2008 9:00 PM
JAMES MADISON UNIVERSITY
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yes, he is the best. #15 put it correctly. he's tied and broke records in just his first 2 years playing in the NFL. theres no where to go but up from there. even in the pro bowl he's done great at returning. while he didn't get one in the endzone during the game, he got pretty dam close for returning against an all star special teams unit. just goes to show he doesn't need the same players on his team to take one back.
BLAZN AZN
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#7
Hester is one of the fastest players in the ENTIRE NFL. He ran a 4.35 40 coming out of college. Only three NFL players are clocked at under a 4.3 time and only a handful more are clocked at 4.33 and this doesn't even take into account game speed. Hester is considered the fastest in pad player in the league, if you can name another I would be impressed, especially a returner. Hester doesn't have a large stride at all he actually has a rather small stride watch the video it's pretty small and jittery, Randy Moss has what is a large stride granted he taller.

I am not taking all Hester's credit I just find it funny that everyone thinks he is so spectacular when in reality he is only THAT good because of the players around him.

To say put Big Ben back there and the players won't try is just stupid. First of all special teams is how you make it on a team when you are a young player. Those guys are always giving 110% and second of all is that why the Bears special teams was so successful when RW McQuarters used to return punts for the Bears? He was one of the best in the league.

Haha complaining? I am hardly complaining. If you haven't heard someone say that Tom Brady is good because of his O-line or Peyton Manning is as good as he is because of his receivers then you obviously don't talk football very often or with very intelligent people.

Peyton Manning is a prime example actually. Look at how well he did when he has had injuries through his receiving core, good hardly great.

AP? He is good in large part to his O-line, but also a spectacular player. That's why he averages, 4 yards to the right side and almost 7 yards to the left side of the line where 2 probowlers play.

All these players are great players and all players are affected by the team around them no doubt. Hester happens to have the best special teams in the league though. What he does is still good I never said it wasn't but if you really think he is the least overrated player in the league you are kidding yourself. Tom Brady wins that hands down (LT a close second), he wins year after year and hasn't had great players around him until las year. Hester is hyped every week and if you look at the special teams of the teams he scores against they aren't exactly great special teams. The Broncos and Vikings had some of the leagues worst special teams.

All records are broken by teams you can say what you want but it's the truth. In reality Hester will break the records for return TD's and possibly yards although he is really only a big play threat and doesn't have the consistency. Point is he is overrated and I really can't wait to see him make a fool of himself playing WR next year.
LoLuPist?
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QUOTE:
Hester is one of the fastest players in the ENTIRE NFL. He ran a 4.35 40 coming out of college. Only three NFL players are clocked at under a 4.3 time and only a handful more are clocked at 4.33 and this doesn't even take into account game speed.


First of all, Devin Hester ran a 4.45 40 yard dash at the 2006 combine, not a 4.35. I know that because it was a pretty big knock on him at the time. He ran better on his pro day, but he ran 4.45 at the combine.

Besides... there are plenty of returners that clock at 4.3 speed. 4.35 is irrelevant come game time... 4.35, 4.39, 4.33, 4.32... they are all the same. Just off the top of my head...

DeAngelo Hall clocked a 4.15 if I remember
Maurice Drew clocked a 4.39, and he's no-where near the fastest returner.
Reggie Bush was 4.33

QUOTE:
Hester doesn't have a large stride at all he actually has a rather small stride watch the video it's pretty small and jittery...


And I never said Hester had a great long stride, I said he had a great stride. There's a difference. Not sure where you got long stride from.

QUOTE:
Hester is considered the fastest in pad player in the league, if you can name another I would be impressed, especially a returner.


There are plenty of guys about as fast, or faster than Hester clocked in at. But like I said, it's gamespeed (his constant top-end speed... his stride) that makes him so good. You're just repeating what I'm saying.

QUOTE:
" Haha complaining? I am hardly complaining. If you haven't heard someone say that Tom Brady is good because of his O-line or Peyton Manning is as good as he is because of his receivers then you obviously don't talk football very often or with very intelligent people. "


Um... I said that with the understanding that that is a terrible argument to make. No intelligent person makes that argument. No "intelligent" football people say Tom Brady is only good because of his line, or Manning is only good because of his receivers. It's dumb to do that, and that's my point. Obviously it helps, but to say they are players of circumstance is ludicrous.

QUOTE:

Point is he is overrated and I really can't wait to see him make a fool of himself playing WR next year.


And Hester being good, or bad at WR next year doesn't have anything to do with anything. I don't think I've ever said once that he's a great receiver. He's a great player at his position (returner).

QUOTE:

To say put Big Ben back there and the players won't try is just stupid. First of all special teams is how you make it on a team when you are a young player. Those guys are always giving 110%


And the Big Ben comment is totally relevant. It's just a fact of life, people work harder when they have more reason to work. If you don't think that's true, you need more life experience... at anything. Because it applies to everything. There's not some magical exception to that rule just because you're on a football field. An O-line blocks harder for a good RB, a WR works harder with a good QB, most QB try* to take better care of the ball with a good defense. And most special teams players work harder when you have Hester, or Cribbs, or anyone of the likes behind them. That's reality. It's not debatable. It's contradictory to say the Bears have this hall-of-fame-worthy special teams blocking for him, and allude to the fact that they have an issue with job security. It doesn't go both ways. Yes, special teams players generally are always trying to prove something, but yes, you still work harder with more reason to work. That's life. Furthermore, they're not about to give him a big fat contract if it's true they could really throw just anyone in there and have them be effective. Let's be sensible here.

QUOTE:
" Peyton Manning is a prime example actually. Look at how well he did when he has had injuries through his receiving core, good hardly great. "


Ok you're just talking at this point.

Peyton went over 4,000 yards for the 8th time in his career last year. He completed 65.4% of his passes (better than his career average). He threw for 31 TDs (tied for third-most of his career).

He had a 98 QB rating (higher than his career average, yet again).

Top it all off with the fact that Peyton has only thrown for over 4,000 yards and 30 TDs three times prior in his entire career... where you get off saying he played merely "good" and not "great" is disinformation. Obviously, he would play better with Marvin fully healthy, but he still played great... not just by anyone elses standards, but by his own career standards.

This comment was edited at 05/07/2008 9:00 AM

Delight have you ever even played contact sports before?
#jetty Where the good vibes flow like the ocean water
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19 do you think that the information he has would come directly from playing contact sports?

It doesn't matter
#jetty Where the good vibes flow like the ocean water

Also, anyone can find out that information on the internet. It's not hard.
#jetty Where the good vibes flow like the ocean water
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#18 have you ever seen Chris Johnson from ECU run?

Ran a 4.24 at the combine.

I got to see him run in real life and that dude is absolute lightning. Honestly I would say hes more elusive than Hester. Ive never seen anybody who can change direction the way he can

Him and Lendale White are going to be the perfect thunder and lightning combination, watch out.
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#18
QUOTE:
First of all, Devin Hester ran a 4.45 40 yard dash at the 2006 combine, not a 4.35. I know that because it was a pretty big knock on him at the time. He ran better on his pro day, but he ran 4.45 at the combine.

Besides... there are plenty of returners that clock at 4.3 speed. 4.35 is irrelevant come game time... 4.35, 4.39, 4.33, 4.32... they are all the same. Just off the top of my head...

DeAngelo Hall clocked a 4.15 if I remember
Maurice Drew clocked a 4.39, and he's no-where near the fastest returner.
Reggie Bush was 4.33


First of all I never mentioned the combine, Hester did however run a 4.35 coming out of college. Secondly thank you for summing up my argument that he is one of the fastest players in the NFL you just named a handful who are about the same speed, exactly like what I said previously. DeAngelo Hall was not clocked like players are at the combine, a track coach used a stop watch so there is a large margin of error on his time although he does still run in the 4.33 range.

QUOTE:

And I never said Hester had a great long stride, I said he had a great stride. There's a difference. Not sure where you got long stride from.


Stride refers to the distance of someone running or walking, hence having a good stride means that you stretch out well when you run. Hester has great footwork and can keep his top speed for a long distance, but hardly a great stride.

QUOTE:
There are plenty of guys about as fast, or faster than Hester clocked in at. But like I said, it's gamespeed (his constant top-end speed... his stride) that makes him so good. You're just repeating what I'm saying.


You have never stated that Hester has great game speed that is what I originally said. As you said before:
QUOTE:
Hester isn't incredibly fast. He's fast, but he's not near the fastest returner in the game.


That's the complete opposite of what you are saying now, which one is it? Hester is THE fast game-speed player in the NFL, hands down.

QUOTE:
And Hester being good, or bad at WR next year doesn't have anything to do with anything. I don't think I've ever said once that he's a great receiver. He's a great player at his position (returner).


Fair enough, I just can't wait for him to embarrass himself and see all Chicago's fans get upset.

QUOTE:
Um... I said that with the understanding that that is a terrible argument to make. No intelligent person makes that argument. No "intelligent" football people say Tom Brady is only good because of his line, or Manning is only good because of his receivers. It's dumb to do that, and that's my point. Obviously it helps, but to say they are players of circumstance is ludicrous.


I never once stated that Tom Brady is ONLY good because of his o-line or that Peyton Manning is ONLY good because of his receivers, but it is a large part of what have made the two as good as they are. You are saying Hester is only good because of Hester which is completely false.

QUOTE:
And the Big Ben comment is totally relevant. It's just a fact of life, people work harder when they have more reason to work. If you don't think that's true, you need more life experience... at anything. Because it applies to everything. There's not some magical exception to that rule just because you're on a football field. An O-line blocks harder for a good RB, a WR works harder with a good QB, most QB try* to take better care of the ball with a good defense. And most special teams players work harder when you have Hester, or Cribbs, or anyone of the likes behind them. That's reality. It's not debatable. It's contradictory to say the Bears have this hall-of-fame-worthy special teams blocking for him, and allude to the fact that they have an issue with job security. It doesn't go both ways. Yes, special teams players generally are always trying to prove something, but yes, you still work harder with more reason to work. That's life. Furthermore, they're not about to give him a big fat contract if it's true they could really throw just anyone in there and have them be effective. Let's be sensible here.


Let me tell you a story about special teams. I played special teams all four years of my high school career. We had a kid on our team who had 9 return touchdowns his junior year and 15 more his senior year. He would be the first person to tell you that it wasn't because he was such a good returner it was because the blocking was so good. To further this point let me tell you something else. Our special players, not returner was the reason so many touchdowns were scored off of returns. We had a backup returner have 2 touchdowns his junior year and then 3 more his senior year on way less returns. Are you trying to tell me that we didn't try as hard when a backup came in? Hardly the team knew what it was capable of and it wasn't just one player fueling it. Also the special teams of the bears is as good as they are because of the effort put forth not necessarily the skill they possess. They know if they make the team in their first few years that they will eventually become a position player, so it does go both ways. Again the Bears had a ton of success when RW McQuarters was their returner just a few years ago, Hester has better numbers because he is faster and has the break away speed, exactly what I have been alluding to the entire time.

All-in-all point still is Hester strives behind what has been the best special teams since before Hester played for the bears. He's a great player, I never said he wasn't, but he is overrated and the only reason people think he is as good as he is happens to be because watching someone run a kick back is one of the most exciting things to watch in football.
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